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On November 16, 2003 Niki and I received a mail from a Thomas Moore telling that he has pictures of our Maryland Family members. I jumped to the links provided in the mail and found pictures we already had on the US Family Site with the exception that they were sepia colored (they are said to be "Ambrotype") instead of white and black. The family decided to contact the seller.
I have decided to put on this pages the mails sent both on the Cavey Mailing List and the US Cavey Family Site.

Note that to avoid the pages on the eBay site to be removed a day or another I've downloaded them on the Cavey.org site so that you can continue to look at them. Nevertheless, I cannot guaranty that the links inside the two pages are still alive.

Pictures from Bill Norris Pictures from eBay
Frederick King Mary Ann Bowers_king FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S!
Click on the picture to enlarge it.  
Nathan Cavey Mary A. Frost Cavey
Click on the picture to enlarge it.
NATHAN & MARY CAVEY PORTRAIT EARLY 1900'S!

Note that there are differences between the two series. The pictures from Bill (on the left) look like if been resized in comparison to the ones on the right. See :
The cutaway of Frederick King has been cut at the bottom of the picture.
The dress of Mary Ann Bowers also and the leg of the armchair she is sitting on as well.
The arch of the wall behind Nathan Cavey and Mary A. Frost Cavey has been cut at the top of the picture from Bill.

Added to the sepia color (Ambrotype), this makes me thought that the originals are those of the eBay site.

From :
  For your convenience, messages are classified in decreasing order of date.
Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 15 December 2003
  Thanks !

On my side I shall survey your eBay ID...

;:-)

Cheers

Dennis Wheeler
(Maryland) 16 december 2003
 

Hi Again....

You are so right.

When I list them all I can give is the info I have. I'll let you know if some of the future pictures have info included as far as cavey ect that I have.

Thanx DW!

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 16 December 2003
  Hi Dennis,

I'm looking for pictures of the Cavey family not by pictures of "unknown soldiers".

Also, I visited your items listed in your eBay store.

http://stores.ebay.com/99centcomics/plistings/list/all/dept11/index.html?dir=1&col=4&sotimedisplay=2

None of them are explicitly Caveys.

I understand that you got them in the same batch but this does not imply that they are from the same family nor that they are Caveys.

They may be friends of the person who sold you these pictures (or his/her descendents).

Many thanks anyway.

[Note of the editor] the above link may be dead after the end of the auction on the eBay' site.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 16 December 2003
  Is that guy joking ?

He said they are from the same family and he tries to make me bid on" unknown soldiers" !!!

Here are the links if you would like to have a look...

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=3252004888
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=3252002535

Note that both pictures are 1940-today / 1940's WWII. So I presume that if they are related to us you might recognise them.

[Note of the editor] the above links may be dead after the end of the auction on the eBay' site.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 16 December 2003
  Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the info.

Anyway, could you tell me which family you are speaking of ? Are they Cavey or King ?

I have been unable to find more Caveys pictures on your eBay store than the one I am already bidding on.

Can you point me a link or more ?

Many thanks.

Dennis Wheeler
(Maryland) 16 december 2003
 

Hello....

I see you are bidding on the CAVEY FAMILY PHOTOGRAPHS on my ebay site sports-ink.

I just want to let you know that I have more photos of the cavey family at my EBAY STORE user ID 99cent-comics. All the photos listed are from the same family.

I will also be adding more asap.

Thanx for you bid......

DW!

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 15 December 2003
  Hi Laurie,

I wondered who was "daisy102" ?

;:-)

As said previously, I am not interested by these pictures myself : my links with Nathan and Mary Cavey , even if actual, are as close as the link we all have with Cavey the Caveman... (at least, far far deep in the past).

Therefore, the reason why I have bidden was to hold these pictures into our family circle.

I know that Donald is also interested by them because Nathan was his GGGGrandfathers , brother to Reuben Cavey from which he directly descend.

I understand that Donald and yourself are close cousins. Keep in mind that if you outbid against each other the winner will be... the seller.

It's up to you, now to win the auction (which I will continue to look at, just in case).

Speaking of the pictures of the Frederick and Mary King, who are both from the Bill Norris lineage, I would be happy to have the opinion of Sharon and Niki :

At the end of the auction (12/19/03), assuming I'm the winner, my idea was to give the Bill's address for delivery.

However, as Bill no longer has a web access, he is not aware of the eBay pictures story. Consequently he will be surprised to receive the pictures from an unknown person (the seller).

My question is what is the best solution ?

To give Bill's address for delivery to the seller or to give Sharon's address so that she can explain to Bill what has happen ?

I had also the idea to give Niki's address because of the great job she has done when scanning the pictures from BIll (those which already are on MyFamily.com) but as she lives in Virginia, I assume that it's more difficult for her to visit Bill.

Sharon and Niki, let me know what to do and send to me your home address so that I can give it to the seller.

Have in mind that the auctions end the next 3 days.

Laurie Slatniske
(Maryland) 15 Decemberr 2003
 

I have bid on the picture of Nathan Cavey and Mary Frost. I'm not interested in the others. Nathan was a brother to my great-great-great grandfather William and Mary was a sister to my g-g-g grandmother Catherine Frost. Brothers of one family married sisters of another.

I thought I would let you know that someone in the loop was interested in owning this picture.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 12 Decemberr 2003
  ---- Original Message ----
From: <JemyJames@aol.com>
To: <caveys@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:01 PM
Subject: [Cavey Family] Re: CAVEY FAMILY PHOTOGRAPHS ON EBAY!

> In a message dated 12/12/2003 11:25:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,> comics499@hotmail.com writes:
> Hello,
> If you look in my
> 99cent-comics
> ebay store all the photos there are from the same family. I do have
> more to
> be listed, some will be in sets.

The eBay store (99cent-comics) is here : http://stores.ebay.com/99centcomics

> There is also a large batch of
> reprint
> photos too.

Reprint ? Be carrefull...

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 12 Decemberr 2003
  Humm...

He just cut and paste the same mail... Not so stupid this guy !

What toubles me is "all the photos there are from the same family"

Pat Brown
(Maryland) 12 December 2003
 

In a message dated 12/12/2003 11:25:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, comics499@hotmail.com writes:

Hello, First let me tell you I have recieved sevel requests about the Cavey photos from what seem to be your relatives too. If you look in my 99cent-comics ebay store all the photos there are from the same family. I do have more to be listed, some will be in sets. There is also a large batch of reprint photos too.

I relisted the photos you asked about in my alternate ebay site SPORTS-INK. Here are the item #'s of the new listing.

NATHAN & MARY CAVEY PORTRAIT EARLY 1900'S! #3260414159 $9.99

FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S! #3260415793 $9.99

FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S! #3260416507 $24.99

If you have any questions you can also write me at sportsink99@hotmail.com.

"We expect too much at Christmas. It's got to be magical. It's got go right. Feasting. Fun. The perfect present. All that anticipation. Take it easy. Love's the thing. The rest is tinsel."

Pat Brown

[Note of the editor] This mail has been sent to Sharon by Pat Brown

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 12 Decemberr 2003
  All!

I've just bidden on eBay to avoid these pictures to be bought by some one outside our circle (even if he is a Cavey).

Items on which I've bidden are :

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13704&item=3260414159
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13704&item=3260415793
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13704&item=3260416507

I suggest that we avoid to bid against each others.

Auctions for these items end on Dec-19 08:01:46 , Dec-19 08:13:03 , Dec-19 08:17:16 (CET time : i.e. GMT+1)

Nevertheless, the seller does not want to sell outside of the US.

We have two solutions (assuming there is no other bidders)

1- I'm the only bidder. I will pay with PayPal (I've an account there) and give the address of Don for delivery.
or
2- Don wait for the last minutes to outbid (of course I'll let him win).

The idea is :

1- To make this guy believe that his interest is to put the other pictures of the family on eBay (and we will get them). Harsh treatment pays no dividends (in France we say : "one cannot catch a bee with vinegar).

2- To have the pictures at the lowest cost. As he says he have "received several requests about the Cavey photos from what seem to be your relatives too".

In a previous mail I wrote :

"I would suggest that Donald and Sharon let him know that you do not plan to bid againts each other ;. Have in mind that the only thing this guy wants is to make as much money as possible with OUR family pictures..."

See : http://family.cavey.org/html_en/ebay_pictures.shtml

A better strategy to make this guy put on eBay the pictures he hold on and not to overpay ?

Looking forward to your opinion, given that, right now I'm in position to win but that these pictures will, in any case, stay at Baltimore where they have there right place.

Pat Brown
(Maryland) 12 December 2003
 

Hello,

First let me tell you I have recieved sevel requests about the Cavey photos from what seem to be your relatives too. If you look in my 99cent-comics ebay store all the photos there are from the same family. I do have more to be listed, some will be in sets.

There is also a large batch of reprint photos too.

I relisted the photos you asked about in my alternate ebay site SPORTS-INK. Here are the item #'s of the new listing.

NATHAN & MARY CAVEY PORTRAIT EARLY 1900'S! #3260414159 $9.99

FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S! #3260415793 $9.99

FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S! #3260416507 $24.99

If you have any questions you can also write me at sportsink99@hotmail.com.

[Note of the editor] This mail has been sent to Donald by Pat Brown

Donald V. Cavey
(Maryland) 12 December 2003
 

Cavey pictures are now being listed on e-bay #3260414159.

If someone wants me to bid please let me know! After reading this guys feedback, I really don't trust him. He sent me an e-mail showing 3 pictures that he now has up for sale.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 26 November 2003
 

I have the seller ID on eBay and the links to the items as well :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=325363491 9&category=13704
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=325363726 6&category=13704

Though, I am not sure that, at the moment, we can say these pictures are "personal family photos" and you are not the owner. I suppose he has bought them from an other Cavey (assuming he is not a far relative himself)...

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Mellina Lathe
(Maryland) 26 November 2003
 

I hate to sound nosey, but who is this guy and what is his seller's ID, can't we get Ebay to stop him selling personal family photos that are not his?

I am curious to see what he else he is trying to sell. Can someone post a link?

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 26 November 2003
 

I think that there is points which still needs to be clarifyed. How does he/she knows that they are pictures of Caveys ?

Why did he/she sent to me the link to the pictures (not only the Cavey but also Frederick King and Mary Ann Bowers) ?

I can't beleive that he got them without knowing who is the seller... (which, obviously is a Cavey).

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Susan Hood
(Maryland) 26 November 2003
  Hi

Just Curious. Has anyone found out where the ebay seller's shop is located?

If in Baltimore, I would be interested in knowing where, and if he would be interested in having family visit him at the shop and purchase the photo's directly from him.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 25 November 2003
  Yes, Donald, I've seen your post and the one of Sharon as well.

This person may have an interresting deposit to explore.

I would be on the other side of the Ocean at the moment : it's exiting !

All the best

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 25 November 2003
  I would suggest that Donald and Sharon let him know that you do not plan to bid againts each other ;:-)

Have in mind that the only thing this guy wants is to make as much money as possible with OUR family pictures...

Cheers.

Dennis Wheeler
(Maryland) 25 November 2003
 

[Note of the editor] : Mail received by Sharon from the seller

I do have some listed in my store and will be relisting more asap...

TY!

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 25 November 2003
 

[Note of the editor] : Mail sent by Sharon to the seller.

HI

I was wondering how you came upon these pictures of the Cavey family

Thank You

Dennis Wheeler
(Maryland) 25 November 2003
 

[Note of the editor] : Mail received by Donald from the seller.

Hi Don...

Yes I did get these photos from the Baltimore area.

I do have several Cavey pics listed in my store and I will add some more in the near future.

I'll have to check to see if this one is still available..

Thanx!

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 25 November 2003
  Sharon,

We have not received the mail you forwarded.

I assume that you forwarded it attached to the mail. This list does not accept attachements to avoid virus spreading.

Can you resent it directly in the body of the mail ? (you can use your" reply" button and replace the addres of the sender by caveys@yahoogroups.com.

Many thanks

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 25 November 2003
 

I have forwarded the mail I have gotten from the EBAy Seller of the Cavey Pictures. I am very concerned about

a) what other pictures he has
and
b) how they ended up in a yard sale.

This is so weird!!!!!

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 25 November 2003
 

Hi Everyone!

I got a reply from the person who is selling Cavey Family pictures on EBAY.

He/She stated that he bought them at a yard sale!!! This just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

He also said he has more Cavey pictures that he will be selling!!!! I really don't know what to make of this!

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 25 November 2003
  Of course I trust you when you explain how you got the pictures from Bill.

However, as I photography is my main hobby (see http://cavey.canon.org/), I would like to highlight the following topics :

1- at the end of the 1800s and the beginning of the 1900s, it was usual to take pictures and print only one sample because of the price. Of course, it was possible to print several samples but as this was expensive that was not so frequent. The fashion was to print pictures in sepia color as are the pictures on eBay. This makes me think that these pictures are the actual original.

2- it was, and it is still, possible to ask for a photo laboratory to re-print an ancien picture. This can easily be done if you have the film. This can also be done without the film. In that case the laboratory takes a picture of the original. Quite easy to do. We did this several times in my family with original pictures owned by my mother or by her sisters in order to give a sample to the other sisters. In the 1920s the fashion was set to print the pictures in black and white, as the "originals" from Bill has. My assumption is that, even if Bill owns actual pictures, they can be such a reprint.

Obviously, I can't be affirmative, but from an historical point of view, the order for the colors of the pictures is first :sepia, later : black and white.

Therefore, my opinion is that the pictures to be sold on eBay are the ones from were the pictures owned by Bill come from.

This is my humble contribution to the debate.

Cheers from Paris.

Niki Lathe Ervin
(Virginia) 25 November 2003
 

These pictures on the website.. Are the orig photos.. I scanned them in myself.. And at the reunion, gave them back to Bill Norris.. So..

How this man has these photos is quite a mystery to me..

Hmmm If he can send them to me.. I can return them to Debra Gair Bill's Daughter..

The rightful owner of these orig photos.

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 24 November 2003
 

I will try to contact Niki and see if she knows any of the answers as far as where Bill got his pictures (copies). If nothing else maybe she can contact Bill's daughter and she can ask him.

I was scared that someone who had acess to our sight might be trying to sell copies but now it doesn't sound like that. This is very strange!

Sharon

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
 

I definitely share your analyse and questions, Donald.

Jean-Luc.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
 

My assumtion is that they are original. In the early 1990's pictures where printed sepia colored.

The ones Bill owns might be a reprint.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
  Thank you Donald,

My thought is that it's easier and more coherent to get these pictures from Maryland than from this side of the Ocean as they are pictures of members of your family tree.

I'm not surprised to find other samples of pictures we already have : even in the early 1900's the pictures were printed more than once to be distributed to the family members.

What puzzled me is :

1- where did they came from ? Do we have an unknown relative previously owner of these samples ? The seller himself ?
2- the samples that are to be sold are sepia while the Bill's samples are white and black (a reprint ?).
3- how did the eBay seller had the idea to write to me ? One picture is clearly a Cavey but what about the two others (King and Browers) ?

This needs some investigation...

I'm waiting for a reply from Thomas Moore and shall let you know.

Cheers

Donald V. Cavey
(Maryland) 24 November 2003
 

The e-bay picture appears to be the original, and Bill's submitted picture appears to be a copy.

Where did Bill get his copy? How did Tom contact you?

Where is the seller from? How did the seller get the picture?

Quite a mystery!

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
 

Thank's Sharon. I've made an offert to keep these in the family and Donald wrotes that he is trying to buy them. There is two questions i would like to be answered :

1- where did these pictures come from.
2- how did the seller found our family group (he writes directly to me). One picture is obviously a Cavey but the two others are pictures of King and Bowers...

Strange indeed.

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 24 November 2003
 

FYI

If the pictures are not the originals you can buy a copy much cheaper off of the Cavey Family page.

Has anyone found out who this person is and how they got the pictures?

Sharon

Donald V. Cavey
(Maryland) 24 November 2003
 

I am attempting to buy the picture so that it can remain in the family.

Hopefully we can find out why it was put up for sale. I find it strange that someone would sell a picture of their great grand parents, especially since they were into genealogy!

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
  All!

For your information, find attached the mail I've sent to a Thomas Moore who is selling three pictures that are already on this site.

Cheers.

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 24 November 2003
 

[Note of the editor] : here is the mail I have sent to the seller.

Thomas,

I would be interested by the item Titled "NATHAN & MARY CAVEY PORTRAIT EARLY 1900'S!" and the one titled "FREDERICK & MARY KING PORTRAITS EARLY 1900'S!" as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3253637266&category=13704
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3253634919&category=13704

These pictures are either already on our site at http://family.cavey.org/html_en/cavey_pic.shtml or on our US Family site at http://www.myfamily.com/ (you can't access this site as it is a private one)

The owner of the original pictures is known to be one of our members.

I have attached a copy of these pictures in electronic format.

I agree to pay 19.99 USD for the first item and 39.99 USD for the second + shipment for France (Via USPS MAIL) .

However, this implies that you accept BidPay because it's a true stuff to send payments in USD from Europe now that our money is EUR.

I'm a Ebayer since years and you can trust me (see my feedbacks : http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jlcavey)

If you agree with this solution I would suggest that you sell these pictures again with a "buy Now" option and that you send a mail to me so that I can immediately bid on it.

If you disagree, let us know : we will try to find a way to buy them directly from the US.

Finally do you recall from whom you got these pictures ? The owner is probably an unknown member of our familly.

Looking forward to read from you.

The Cavey Family Worldwide Society Webmaster.

Donald V. Cavey
(Maryland) 23 November 2003
 

[Note of the editor] : Mail sent by Donald to the seller.

Where did you aquire the Cavey photograph? Are you from the Baltimore area?

Is the picture still for sale?

Thank's....Don

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 23 November 2003
 

You have got to be kidding!!! Does anyone know about it?!?!??!

This is really upsetting. Unless the owner..Bill Norris decided to sell it.

Anyone have any ideas about what to do?

Thanks!

Sharon Ryan-Zinkand
(Maryland) 23 November 2003
 

Anyone that has any information about how Cavey family pictures are showing up on ebay please let us all know!!!!

Thanks!

[Note of the editor] : this mail has been first published on the US Family' Site

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 23 November 2003
  I've no idea of if it was in use to made sevral copies of the same picture in the past.

It could be of some interrest to learn from where this picture comes.

The seller seems to know who is on the picture. He may have some link with you (us).

Cheers.

Donald V. Cavey
(Maryland) 23 November 2003
 

It is strange, that this picture is up for sale on e-bay (Nathan Cavey & Mary A Frost Cavey).

It apears on the cavey web site @ my family .com, submited by Bill Norris! (his great grand parents)............

Any one know what is going on?........

Thank's Donald V. Cavey....

Jean-Luc Cavey
(Paris) 22 November 2003
  All!

I've received this mail which may be of some interest for the Marylanders Caveys.

Have a look.

Cheers.

Thomas Moore
(Maryland) 16 November 2003
  Jean-Luc and Nicole,

Hello. I tracked down your email address (hope these are still current) because on eBay there are photos of Frederick King Mary Ann Bowers King Nathan and Mary Cavey here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3253634919&category=13704

And here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3253637266&category=13704

I'm not selling anything, just trying to connect people to their photos.

Regards,

Tom Moore

http://homepage.mac.com/thomas_moore/genealogy/


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